Oil beside the fire

[Xusvamt]

I relate down everything, what occurred in the latter 1,5 - 2 months on the forum before the theme “confederation”, it is sufficiently peaceful. Simply still early. Based on the other side causes concern the tone of beside which from time to time they are stripped not (), but adherents. In spite of the name of this branch I please all to peacefully and validly relate down the collocutors. Can they will appear fresh thoughts?
Obviously, people on the motorcycles it becomes increasingly more. By them it is already little simple
to roll. Those, as far as which it transported to find adherents they created clubs. Clubs
they stand on the guard of laws and freedoms of their members. Those for whom frames of the clubs
it is too close also they would not forego the defense of its interests through
the serious and respected representative.
Now we are located beyond the stage of the discussion of all-Ukrainian organization
by global ambitions. But not better whether in this stage
to look down a question only it is simpler. I.e. not to place by the primary task
strategic formation milliseconds .
We generally from the very beginning began to construct house figuratively speaking with facade, but not
based on the basement. All-Ukrainian strategic formation must include the equal
the comparable terms. It is difficult to represent as it is possible to compare
with the club. To hence it follows that create is necessary organization.
The latter together with milliseconds they can lay the basement of higher on status strategic formation,
and to enter beside it on the equal laws. If this strategic formation it will be necessary.
Of the targets of organization are the same as we implied, until now, for
confederation.
Generally, the member of the structure named above can be any national of the Ukraine without the limitations,
which considers itself . Its interests will be shielded in any event, also, before
by state (traffic control, courts, medicine), before the society (image, popularization, ..) and possibly
abroad. based on it none and, correspondingly, whatever person it is
of the reputation of entire structure it will not stain.





. Each can become its recorded term. To have name and , to pay contributions,
to receive benefits and possibilities before all those questions for the sake of which deals organization.
All this is natural only sketch, version from the set and by places appears naively. Here
it would like it will be reverted to log. As air are necessary examples to real life, structures of club,
federation, confederation, community organization, the trade union of shorter than what it is convenient, provided
already existing. Let from Russia, , , Poland, USA and so forth why to pack
unnecessary knobs and to be trampled down on the spot? Information, here is food for the mind. Sooner or later everything will be added
before the uniform picture. Through the log the maximum of will be connected down the comprehension of the need
strategic formation. Then does not arise the isolations of the progressively thinking but groups and
their ideas will become clear and close to those, for whom is created all-Ukrainian strategic formation.

[Olice]

All this is natural only sketch, version from the set and by places appears naively. Here
it would like it will be reverted to log. As air are necessary examples to real life, structures of club,
federation, confederation, community organization, the trade union of shorter than what it is convenient, provided
already existing.
Bravo! And again bravo! Such sensation, that you was against the rendezvous!
Very precisely and is accurately noticed essence!





For all:
Those make mistakes, who say that association - rigid vertical line is. Rigid vertical line - this is federation! (I will find about this I will hang out for the familiarization).
It is very it's a pity, that did not arrive precisely those people, which confuse concepts - all-Ukrainian organization and club. Children, you simply create one additional club! And everything! Why you simply do not wish to hear the opposing side? and moreover here authority? Authority is intended to be against the places, in the regions, but in no way not in and those, who agreed with it! But central team all - is necessary, but it so much not lead will be, as to help against the summit level (to solve insurance, work with the media outlets and so forth) - without this team all simply will be pulled down! You do wish to direct? Forward! We will be only glad, that appear the activists! Verify, To there is how to be occupied!
Why such perturbed by the matters of confederation gladiator did not arrive down the rendezvous? indeed all debatable moments it is better to consider against the rendezvous, but not before the forum?! What, they were " leant by crescent” and we do wish nothing to hear? That, “there are two points of view: my and incorrect?”
For those, who very react violently down this branch: it is necessary to charge no one. This is the normal process of discussion. or you did wish one to be dictated, that to make, and everything else did accordingly nod by heads as blocks? Disagreeing will be, and this is also normal! Well cannot all think equally! And verify, authority here entirely not moreover…
Possibly, even it is good that will appear not one strategic formation, but two. It means, is developed. But time will judge. Not necessary to become beside the pose and to shout “to me this organization is not necessary!” - you yet do not know, what program will be in that structure, which was born beyond this Saturday! Do not make hasty outputs! Better drive out time and you come also beyond this Saturday, and 30 numbers (if it is must) and discuss, and listen to, and draw. But there is nothing - also terrible…

[HARAD]

With everything my to you sincere respect, I will laugh to express my unconformity from your point of view. You do see before what it consists a question… I, speaking word-for-word, not “shouted louder than all” that association it was not necessary. To whom it is necessary - that let it and makes. Here is my point of view! Association does not fit TO ME and FOR THE SAKE OF THE FACT who it began conversation precisely about the confederation! If we do wish to create confederation, why we must go beside the association? Freedom of choice no one abolished…
I will therefore permit one admonition itself: the one who he wishes to divide money and authority - let the association create, to whom are more expensive freedom and equality (and this not the grandiloquent words, been cast by youth!!!) - will be joined under the flag confederations… In my opinion so it will be correct! And it is not necessary to suspend all dogs down each other! I will be repeated: give to live harmoniously!
Life - she is great practitioner! And that which seemed us before the youth firm and super-correct, then, for which to the life was given and dispatch down the feat, it is today forgotten and it is trampled… It would not wish so that is again banal not down that side. But… This is their selection! I will be repeated, those who traversed different type “vertical”, “horizontal”, “centralized” organizations, never and the second time on no account will enter THIS… Money and authority - this from the devil, this is the symbol of discord, whatever good targets were placed before organization…
At the point of sym I please your forgiveness, that honestly it is not agreeable with this “policy”…
I remain with my opinion, what and to you I desire.
Sincerely your
Andrey (KARAT)

[AneksFENd]

Carat - RESPECT!
Alice… I my opinion wrote before the post “rendezvous 16.12.2006”:. rewrite will not be. I will stress mono- if it begins watering for the sake of mud of each other (but this it occurs to be based on both sides, to cite I will not be - not lazy easily this on the forum), then half copeck coin is the price to this strategic formation. when target one, it is necessary to be joined, but not to be occupied by the creation of , parliament and so forth… thus far I see only power contest. .

[HARAD]

2
Not decorations for! …
“At the point of the power it is offensive…”

[Olice]

Carat - RESPECT!
Alice… I my opinion wrote before the post “rendezvous 16.12.2006”:. rewrite will not be. I will stress mono- if it begins watering for the sake of mud of each other (but this it occurs to be based on both sides, to cite I will not be - not lazy easily this on the forum), then half copeck coin is the price to this strategic formation. when target one, it is necessary to be joined, but not to be occupied by the creation of , parliament and so forth… thus far I see only power contest. .
It is absolutely correct. We wished to be gathered and to attempt to hear each other. It did not come out.
How then to be joined, if it cannot be even even been met and had a talk? Or we do create virtual strategic formation and program will be also virtual?
But apropos clearings up - this is normal, each defends its point of view, trying to reconvince opponent. Where our of side you did see not ? Everywhere we shout: give, we are ready to trade-offs! you come! We will talk! And that? :. those, who arrived down the rendezvous, arrived against the general solution. Not immediately, before the discussions - but they arrived. So can, it is simply necessary nevertheless to be met? By , all did convince at his point of view, but he indeed did not arrive? It is not interesting? Then about which we do speak?

[jladiatar]

It does not seem strange that you do reproach us before the fact that we do wish money, but we that exactly about the money not at all do speak, but you them do already gather, it is more accurate, you do try? But indeed money - they from the devil? …
Of course not, the very thing we already and assemble, but we do not try. Even if confederation suddenly and foregoes the manufacture of the fetish- framings, realization of which will provoke the creation of the uniform and unshared fund for mutual assistance, then I will do this itself. Almost twenty people day at the day did sit through two months before the heated arguments “of to the shoulder” (monitor to the monitor), they did " bear” souvenir symbolism, practically did bring down the mind THE FIRST practical question, brass knuckles did " sculpture” by logotypes on the course repeatedly of them altering… I that, all to tomcat under the tail, that whether? No, so it will not be!!!

[HARAD]

Respected by lady Alice!
Again you muddle…
I do not share, I propose to remain with my opinions… Section went based on your supply!
“War who wishes, their matter let they fight…” So say great and to argue with them does not stand…
Money? … Yes they from the devil!!! And themselves you indicate that it is more than headache….
But that to the freedom… That we do not intend somewhere to ENTER… They enter beside or beside the batch…
We already CONFEDERATE MEMBERS!!! Before the soul, before the thoughts, in private life… As to you it will be convenient. And why to me now
to change MY FREEDOM as far as “the headache” of another strategic formation (as it do not call)?
Read at least Vlasov before the beginning of the discussion of the confederation (then yet it was not discussed form)… Specifically, on free relations originally solved it was be gathered…
But already then… Well that there was then this and so evidently…
So before what problem? To you are necessary before the ranks of association anarchists? The uncles, which will muddy subordinate young people? Which will be disagreeing with all and entire, since this will be laid at the very beginning? Why to you this of ?
So that dear my, give let us leave to confederate members - , and associations - …
Freedom and again freedom of choice, this is what the main thing for me… yes I think also for many…
I am confederate member! What you personally it does not triple?

[jladiatar]

So can, it is simply necessary nevertheless to be met? By , all did convince at his point of view, but he indeed did not arrive? It is not interesting? Then about which we do speak?
Yes, not . wrote here repeatedly - WHY because I new for itself did not personally hear . judging as far as the results of the meeting, so it . my intuition feeds rarely. Agitate the people, you will then bring up a question for the general voting, and all will become immediately clearly, came out that in you or no. However, I about this already also of 1000 times here and . must not forget, that MANY not of Kiev and his vicinities! By it is difficult to be encountered “”.

[Olice]

Respected by lady Alice!
Again you muddle…
I do not share, I propose to remain with my opinions… Section went based on your supply!
“War who wishes, their matter let they fight…” So say great and to argue with them does not stand…
Money? … Yes they from the devil!!! And themselves you indicate that it is more than headache….
But that to the freedom… That we do not intend somewhere to ENTER… They enter beside or beside the batch…
We already CONFEDERATE MEMBERS!!! Before the soul, before the thoughts, in private life… As to you it will be convenient. And why to me now
to change MY FREEDOM as far as “the headache” of another strategic formation (as it do not call)?
Read at least Vlasov before the beginning of the discussion of the confederation (then yet it was not discussed form)… Specifically, on free relations originally solved it was be gathered…
But already then… Well that there was then this and so evidently…
So before what problem? To you are necessary before the ranks of association anarchists? The uncles, which will muddy subordinate young people? Which will be disagreeing with all and entire, since this will be laid at the very beginning? Why to you this of ?
So that dear my, give let us leave to confederate members - , and associations - …
Freedom and again freedom of choice, this is what the main thing for me… yes I think also for many…
I am confederate member! What you personally it does not triple?
. to me this hemorrhoid is not actually necessary…





Yes, not . wrote here repeatedly - WHY because I new for itself did not personally hear . judging as far as the results of the meeting, so it . my intuition feeds rarely. Agitate the people, you will then bring up a question for the general voting, and all will become immediately clearly, came out that in you or no. However, I about this already also of 1000 times here and . must not forget, that MANY not of Kiev and his vicinities! By it is difficult to be encountered “”.
Simple to say to you something was that arrived. But in general people respected must be, and if already they were collected, the fact that you them then “simply” put… Indeed people arrived, that support originally confederation. It was necessary to convince them. But so it is very sad. Although, can precisely this action and are characterized your principles?

[jladiatar]

. to me this hemorrhoid is not actually necessary… simple to you to say that arrived was something. But in general people respected must be, and if already they were collected, the fact that you them then “simply” put… Indeed people arrived, that support originally confederation. It was necessary to convince them. But so it is very sad. Although, can precisely this action and are characterized your principles?
Not to . they already made a similar admonition. Again I repeat: I immediately, before the meeting openly wrote that to me PERSONALLY all is understandable that it will there be . not understandably, that can and . on this assemblage were present completely extraneous for precisely THE CONFEDERATION to .: Specifically, for THE CONFEDERATION!!! I this , knowing Valera's style. And so I wrote that if we each of us to each other assign meetings when to him , then we then by no means will leave. WE ATTENTIVELY RE-READ FORUM!!!

[HARAD]

In my opinion here the evident attempt to draw in a useless argument about that who better…
But can let us leave down the court of time? It will show, as it was repeatedly…
But it arrived or did not arrive - this matter is also voluntary! I personally, apologized herself, that he promised but it did not arrive… If it would be in the association, then it would stand and examined your notations… But so - discharge!
I - confederate member!!!

[Xusvamt]

Foot-foot- feet! as …
I zh about which you did request PEOPLE? Do not tear friend- friend beyond the unit.
But best of all also, until now timelier in all this time resounds Vlasov's phrase on the first page of the very first discussion:
“….….
… “

[elkSasxo]

Not to . they already made a similar admonition. Again I repeat: I immediately, before the meeting openly wrote that to me PERSONALLY all is understandable that it will there be . not understandably, that can and . on this assemblage were present completely extraneous for precisely THE CONFEDERATION to .: Specifically, for THE CONFEDERATION!!! I this , knowing Valera's style. And so I wrote that if we each of us to each other assign meetings when to him , then we then by no means will leave. WE ATTENTIVELY RE-READ FORUM!!!
first of all this was not the assemblage
the secondly the rendezvous was organized for- cite the words Of
---“Therefore to BY ALL, who read this branch (but not only he wrote before it) and it is actually INTERESTED before compiling of community OF ALL-UKRAINIAN level,---

[HARAD]

2
You did not see as they tear beyond the unit…
We not … We at the point of our, that was painful…
We remain each with our opinion.
That to Vlasov, then he this " said” on another occasion…

[Xusvamt]

Before Vlasov are guilty, , .

[HARAD]

Well thus always…
Here “”… there “muddled”…

[AneksFENd]

however, that. I will be repeated again. down my sentence to Valera to lead rendezvous 16 on December 30 response DID NOT ACT!!!. I can comprehend this so - we will be met when and only when Valera it will calculate by necessary. i, yes even in many not- Kievians did not have the possibility to escape by 16 down this rendezvous, it was repeatedly declared about than. now you, Alice, say that arrived, to whom this is necessary. so and why not to lead rendezvous, for example, in Odessa? and to look, who ? or in the Crimea? or to any village in the western outskirts of the Ukraine?
and again I will be repeated. thus far I see only the drenching of each other by shit and pulling blanket down itself based on both sides! :. and this instead of the design, I repeat DESIGN dispute! it is further. you there something solved. so write argumentatively, why your point of view is better! really you do think that we , which do not understand reasonable reasons? further. I cite Valera:
“3. mechanism of combination to the confederation of already existing (including milliseconds) is also delayed-action mine, since the mentality of members milliseconds and free motorcyclists strongly is distinguished, that also ground for the conflicts. I devised this mechanism near by the 7th of months ago and preliminarily discussed him with the Presidents of the leading clubs of the Ukraine. There were no fundamental objections. Against the rendezvous this mechanism was described by me and was also obtained the approval of those being present.”
and to write in detail for the absentees? or this is not necessary?
me this reminds of the following principle - “there is two opinions - one my, another inaccurate”.
and finally I will be repeated no longer I know what time. for the sake of what organization can deal the discussion, if you commonplace cannot that or consider without the drenching of someone by shit???

[HARAD]

2
Note, in this case that I - “soft and fuzzy”… at least try it to be…

[TRIVI]

To all the good time of day! It is not necessary to be nervous, moreover no one. Simply take the following fact: many people (from those, whom it interested very theme of the creation of all-Ukrainian ) IDEA, pleased, but the direction, before which was banal “the confederation…”, pleased, unfortunately, by far from all, did not please the approach to the organization, which was proclaimed and so forth, up to the nuances before the colors and the images (although this for a second time).
If we attentively re-read , then it will become obvious: there was no unity of opinion DOWN ALL! Propositions were advanced, they were considered - the normal process. BUT!
I also am placed in that category of people. Well I did not take fully the direction for on the name and the form “confederation…”. What at the point of in regard to this? I that, do not have a law down his own point of view? Clear- red, I have. And it proposed altogether only to BE MET in order this very point of view to present. But already then for itself to decide, what to make further. It seems to me that already Kievians could arrive everyone (I I, naturally, bear in mind those interested before the process of the persons). BUT, again “but”: The glory (but it before the eyes of all he proved to be by my principal opponent) now solemnly it declares, which to it was ALL previously known, and for this very reason it did not appear. Arrogance?
First whether something it did fear, then nevertheless NOT ALL counted, but nevertheless it decided to put off discussion “і- on -і”. Therefore all it seems that it was and there is an opposition and some mythical struggle at the point of the mythical authority. It would arrive, they had a talk, and the , which now was increased, would be removed - the mass of questions would drop out both in it and in people! BUT! “є those, є”. I please all to be calmed and not to heat situation, to me seems this completely excessive. At least, do not suspend labels and epithets, without having been dismantled against the realias of that occurring. As it was said, time will judge.
2 Alekswind: I did not expect that will arrive out-of-town (besides CARAT, it next). Moreover, I the 16th, to all, who arrived, imparted that it was desired to arrive the 30th beside “the lagoon” and to meet with all, who will be able to arrive there, since to divide to us something, but there is that to explain with the rendezvous. I so that wait response. It is prepared to arrive and to shed light for all questions, which appear in those, whom there was no the 16th.
But haste is necessary only… Well, you themselves know!

[AneksFENd]

2 Alekswind: I did not expect that will arrive out-of-town (besides CARAT, it next). Moreover, I the 16th, to all, who arrived, imparted that it was desired to arrive the 30th beside “the lagoon” and to meet with all, who will be able to arrive there, since to divide to us something, but there is that to explain with the rendezvous. I so that wait response. It is prepared to arrive and to shed light for entire і, to і they appear in those, whom there was no the 16th.
But haste is necessary only… Well, you themselves know!
greatly it would like… and still it was desirable to hear about the drenching by mud of each other. it is in detail, thoroughly, based on both sides without the descents, type, only after it. moreover precisely here so that everything, who is interested before a question of strategic formation, would comprehend, from where and that .

[Arocord]

greatly it would like… and still it was desirable to hear about the drenching by mud of each other. it is in detail, thoroughly, based on both sides without the descents, type, only after it. moreover precisely here so that everything, who is interested before a question of strategic formation, would comprehend, from where and that .
One matter - to say everything here, and another - with the personal rendezvous. Here I can be whom conveniently and to tell which fell, and here with the personal rendezvous to lie is necessary very well, that collocutor did not comprehend that you you will lie. Briefly stated, is better than one time to hear everything with the rendezvous, than to read on the forum.

[TRIVI]

greatly it would like… and still it was desirable to hear about the drenching by mud of each other. it is in detail, thoroughly, based on both sides without the descents, type, only after it. moreover precisely here so that everything, who is interested before a question of strategic formation, would comprehend, from where and that .
Public does wish grain and spectacles? Or there is the desire ACTUALLY to be dismantled, “who from Hu”?
It is ready with the facts before the hands and VERY argumentatively (up to the certificates of the third persons) to answer any questions in order to discontinue the possibility of insinuations, hearing and reservations. Mud does not please very; therefore to be rubbed by shoulder and to be soiled in this case also I do not wish. How you do think, response will be?

[jladiatar]

Public does wish grain and spectacles? Or there is the desire ACTUALLY to be dismantled, “who from Hu”?
It is ready with the facts before the hands and VERY argumentatively (up to the certificates of the third persons) to answer any questions in order to discontinue the possibility of insinuations, hearing and reservations. Mud does not please very; therefore to be rubbed by shoulder and to be soiled in this case also I do not wish. How you do think, response will be?
Response it will not be. Since I you not for the sake of than here charged . you down me actually YOU CHASE!!! Besides very noticeably it is dynamic.
But to me the you and not before what in reality . journalist. But I before this craft plainly that nothing fumble.
If it is honest, I already even do not know, about than for the sake of you to talk before this forum… well, before the meaning on questions the concerning themselves PRECISELY strategic formations… A give kiloamperes of fun for example we argue, that if we display beyond the voting (they vote only those, who specifically it participates before the discussions, either it has a picture of confederate member, and not your, or my personal friends) THE QUESTION: “Who more on whom did here chase, “drive or gladiator”? , Then I will win, and before this it is concrete and IT IS CONFIDENT! I place the box of the most expensive beer! But Che, weakly to begin to argue? Pancake, I already beside the childhood for the sake of you to fall begin. Is shorter, with the advancing New Year you - “association”!!!!!

[Clusadel]

Children give we will not play beside the play:
I will prove that you radish based on 7 attempts.
But I will prove that you radish based on 5 attempts
I did say based on 7 attempts, is not understandable of ? …
All, finish with this.
Fastened images

[Wolrior]

For all:
Those make mistakes, who say that association - rigid vertical line is. Rigid vertical line - this is federation! (I will find about this I will hang out for the familiarization).
Not . is a form of the strategic formation of regional representations under that sufficiently rigid centralized . there is a strategic formation of regions under the absolute central of . of . there is a strategic formation OF EQUAL.





It is very it's a pity, that did not arrive precisely those people, which confuse concepts - all-Ukrainian organization and club. Children, you simply create one additional club! And everything!
Exactly clubs before the base mass present the form of that centralized of . WE exactly of this greatly we do not wish.





But central team all - is necessary, but it so much not lead will be, as to help against the summit level (to solve insurance, work with the media outlets and so forth) - without this team all simply will be pulled down! You do wish to direct? Forward!
Here indeed, . exactly to lead that not . and we do not wish in order to by us . here “central team” sooner or later it will arrive against the problem of authority and . to this financial flows going through the same “central team” they will be constant temptation for . by the steady source of the mutual suspicions. I has long ago lived and I know as people they are conducted beyond the stocks.





Not necessary to become beside the pose and to shout “to me this organization is not necessary!” - you yet do not know, what program will be in that structure, which was born beyond this Saturday!
Yes I on the whole that did not shout and beside the pose not . said that this organization to me personally not . and program also, if . as “by good intentions road beside hell was paved.”
Are already to what extent good were good all programs in Communists on you . - . you do in reality remember, “as this was”?
. . . he spoke, that the confederation places by its task combination milliseconds -. simply we invite all desiring and sharing the ideas and the policy OF CONFEDERATION to be joined on the absolutely equal of . all this will triple someone - the favor of . . - will.
. not to . so much symbolism in sufficiently large number the same milliseconds - . confederative about the meaning why is so popular before the same flag of confederation.
Entire . OF FREEDOM. The spirit OF CONFEDERATION is originally laid before the - movement itself.
Here is this here my modest opinion.





or to any village in the western outskirts of the Ukraine?
you my of UST by village did call? A?
It before its time was the capital of Carpathian Russia of the Ukraine. But you - village.

[Movereck]

Gentlemen! this our forum. I simply am thrilled! As children it is straight. shit it fell on fan. I after reading so sweet sleep, before the complete to , which all is normal. Kiddies squabble, it means still nothing they set fire.
But it is serious, when there everything to , 30? , here then structurally and let us have a talk. Or will look down the battle of Titans mind you I before the first row
I again will be repeated, that expressed I before the report my point of view. I neither words nor said the type: “FOLLOW US COMRADES! BY ACCURATE ROAD !” I heard the reasoned idea. And personally to me it is more than . matter voluntary! Who did there tell that us they did wash the brains? Can consider now me or
In reality still nothing it is solved. The versions are proposed: , , !
And something by saliva to in different directions splash!

[Arocord]

We exactly to lead that not . and do not wish so that us they would lead.
But as otherwise? Without the leadership that whether? Then entire organization is pulled down!

[jladiatar]

But as otherwise? Without the leadership that whether? Then entire organization is pulled down!
We so are smooth of to “the foundations” of the operating religions and concessions… The sun who leads, that it is celestial body? Carl Marx that whether? Or the leader of oecumenical nobility?

[jladiatar]

But it is serious, when there everything to , 30? , here then structurally and let us have a talk. Or will look down the battle of Titans mind you I before the first row
I again will be repeated, that expressed I before the report my point of view. I neither words nor said the type: “FOLLOW US COMRADES! BY ACCURATE ROAD !” I heard the reasoned idea. And personally to me it is more than . matter voluntary! Who did there tell that us they did wash the brains?
Well yes, you certainly expressed your point of view… you have complete down this dextro you you understand, in reality not so all is ridiculous and gaily as it may seem down the first, insufficiently experimental before the subjects view… to my great regret. I continue….
Here certain group of people, was assembled and considered behavior of different before the Ukraine jointly with new in .! I here PERSONALLY completely precisely for example am confident, whereas that the representatives actually “traditional” milliseconds of clubs in the Ukraine still and did not hear THUS FAR plainly about these spontaneous considerations about the future milliseconds effect beyond the our own territories… And their direct collaboration beside what that future hot debates with “the owners of motorcycles”. Well you are pancake to ! To you Che there, not about which it was have a talk GENERALLY that? However, the statements of Valera about allegedly what first concrete preliminary coordinations for the sake of the leaders of , must remain on the conscience of very .. if this nevertheless then, then let Valera organizes, that who first from “the leaders” of familiar to it, “traditional” milliseconds of the clubs, which zealously support the creation of similar either confederation or still what of of , which is not been it is exclusive of support milliseconds, he will state HERE about his CLUB support precisely down the side of this association… in 21 century, glory to god this do . “nontraditional” leaders (why that confidently counting themselves milliseconds), great request, down the review to local public NOT TO PROPOSE! With the settlement “Napoleon” I am personally narrower than , will suffice… I for example it is ready to meet for the sake of the leader ACTUALLY “of traditional” milliseconds of the club, which HERE, will publicly support valerins of . it is ready to describe to him (if it wants to be met and to listen) what OUR confederation (precisely ), and what we have plans are at the point of the future.
Here is YOUR the personal brief note: “Before one of the Houses sit the Presidents of all clubs, and they solve between themselves all the only milliseconds, FC,… and so forth,”
To there remained only summon psychotherapist and a little to write: Under the indefatigable care of aidmaces, who serve these very, by Valera - House.
I do hope that you although now do begin to understand, that how this very well, that FOR EXAMPLE I PERSONALLY was not present at a similar CONFERENCE where they were solved the fate of fellows from milliseconds? But you zh there for sure still and found time to vote on these questions… Take, and again be gathered, and you will again consider the collaboration milliseconds of the clubs of those finding beyond the territory of the Ukraine before the plans of your new association… Display on the paper by them the specific conditions of further joint “coexistence” (do not forget to only designate “messenger”, who will PERSONALLY ENTRUST your requirements), and vote at the point of this daring, truly masculine action, for the sake of your entire friendly association!
So that to , “adult” approach to those surrounding, for example thus: “Kiddies squabble, it means still nothing they set fire.” it can sometimes on the absurd randomness drive in still further, beside it is still more “adult” not over the years life.
As I hope that everyone comprehended that this only my and I am not representative “traditional” milliseconds of . and support one of the actually worthy, deservedly known clubs, to the extent of my . this my especially service record. Therefore try in vain with me beside the debates not to enter on questions . I to write about this will not be! I recommend and to you it is low the same.
For the representatives of the beyond forces: If this post BY CHANCE (as here and it strictly), then know, I him maintained STRONGLY, FOR A LONG TIME and WHOLLY.

[jladiatar]

Children give we will not play beside the play:
I will prove that you radish based on 7 attempts.
But I will prove that you radish based on 5 attempts
I did say based on 7 attempts, is not understandable of ? …
All, finish with this.
What radishes??? You what this did throw for the sake of manual to be occupied? Fellows there before combat the confederative native land do defend, brass knuckles it does " draw” all that it did devise and it did coordinate before the early stages, and you type did take and he did vanish that whether? Sliest, sky? I hope that beside the near half a year for us (), the local administrators will establish HERE normal, and I personally immediately to fellows will advance your candidature down “the secretary of confederation”. But if you certainly agree… I understand, it is difficult to make serious decisions beside such dim …

[ANISI]

“Before one of the Houses sit the Presidents of all clubs, and they solve between themselves all the only milliseconds, FC,… and so forth,”
To there remained only summon psychotherapist and a little to write: Under the indefatigable care of aidmaces, who serve these very, by Valera - House.

[Clusadel]

What radishes??? You what this did throw for the sake of manual to be occupied? Fellows there before combat the confederative native land do defend, brass knuckles it does " draw” all that it did devise and it did coordinate before the early stages, and you type did take and he did vanish that whether? Sliest, sky? : ce_cikavo: I hope that beside the near half a year for us (), the local administrators will establish HERE normal, and I personally immediately to fellows will advance your candidature down “the secretary of confederation”. But if you certainly agree… I understand, it is difficult to make serious decisions beside such dim …
Simply it fluoresced thought - stop down the work and not down of the quality of of each other.

[HARAD]

2
Listen to, and in you indeed precisely healthily it was received with the manual… up to until Saturday…
Can actually this - your? It is not possible indeed to write with the entrainment the manual of confederation,
and to in a day other day replace heading for the association… Yes even targets will there surely be others, and already the methods of achievement - this precisely not such… Be determined brothers! If is close to you union on the equal and free laws, then we continue fruitfully to work at the creation OF CONFEDERATION.
If other values and ways of their achievement are close to you before the spirit, that this zh your selection, the selection of free people and you are free to create that which to you is nearer on the spirit… No one will reproach you!
The main thing so that before the confederation those would remain, who this by entire heart… You will forgive at the point of the high degree of pairing.
PS to go away possible quietly… having simply removed based on yourselves signs… and you here will be able already without the confederation, I do not know… Can someone this it will do with the ease, someone day after thinking…
I personally first think, I weigh, I estimate I will be able and I only then take down itself some obligations… But if it took, then to take away in me this oh as is not simple! And I do not represent, as I could be deployed down 180 degrees in one day?! This is not possible!!! Sole version - this is unconformity for the sake of the idea… But why it was then it defend and “play” beside it? Plays, as childhood ended, fellows!!! It is here necessary to decide and to behave seriously…

[Clusadel]

But Che at the point of the hints on Saturday?
In general I wished to be met, but in me is simple not і because of і of і of reasons…
It is simple for the interest. To me all is interesting before this of - before of fruitful work. And I am ready to examine different sentences. To argue not the harmful main thing this to make, in addition
efficiently

[HARAD]

I do not hint… I reflect aloud…
If not laws, then excuse… I stretch to you hand…
Here and give to work further, disregarding not on what…

[Olice]

My dear confederate members! I will be very glad, if in you something actually comes out. Well as you cannot comprehend that we not against before the territory of the Ukraine it would be forming 3-4-5 more. clubs, confederations and other community organizations! Be formed on the health!
A question first of federation, then associations during the year was already raised by us and was considered. Simply hands did not reach to design everything and to launch branch for the discussion. (By the way, is for which must this discussion? From my point of view - to determine the strong and weak sides of the created organization).
And very visitors of forum splashed out here similar idea. Well, then is noticeable! That the sight is distinguished - this is normal! Well cannot 20 people think equally! But those more than 100 or 200! You see this before this form - here and create!
We, based on our side, saw the definite deficiencies before this organization and honestly they wished this to consider, and, possibly, to arrive against the uniform decision. Those, who heard these reasons, with them it agreed. Remaining for some reason them simply to hear they do not wish…
Give a little about practical questions.
Warrior, if confederation - this the alliance of equal, the fact that such club and before what is a difference? Only before ? Here you consist in the International Code of Signals (I I do not make mistakes?). How will be related your down the decision to enter actually the same club, but only all-Ukrainian? Here I, for example, know that even its members of club he is sometimes difficult to gather down the general meeting and to load some for the sake of social activities, and already to be gathered based on the entire Ukraine - this is generally unreal. And, by the way, about what vertical line of authority you speak, if club - this already the vertical line of authority, moreover sufficiently rigid. So why to you one additional analogous structure? To enter somewhere in order to be free? Nonsense, so does not occur! If you somewhere entered, then in you some responsibilities unambiguously appear. And where here freedom? To carry stripe? Give let us take a commonplace example. You proclaim aid to each other. It is noticeable! Let us examine the situation, when the flow of tourists, in summer goes through your remarkable Transcarpathian area, and many confederate members will want in the Transcarpathian region to rest. Practice shows that in motorcyclists there are some accidents, breakdown and other troubles. We for such cases released the map of (yes, inadequate, yes, with some errors. But she actually worked!). Before what there will be the difference for you personally: you will help only confederate member, and remaining “you will send by forest”? Or you will help independently of that, does consist that person or not before the confederation? If you do not help - that I am glad, that you not with us. If you do help, then before what then difference, and it is necessary whether to devise bicycle, trimming square wheels?
The following question hence emerges already to all confederate members: HOW you do see rendering aid in the limits of the entire Ukraine? I will not consider absurd and populist statements, what if is must - money suffered rapidly let us gather or ONE HUNDRED will construct… YOUR REAL steps? I assuming that each of you individually the sincere and person, but when him will pull as the minimum, 2 times a week, that to someone is required the aid, I I do not think that this fuse it can suffice for a long time… Indeed to you to still and work once necessary, and family to contain, yes even very to go for a drive to … But Valera exactly at the meeting spoke about THE MECHANISMS of resolution of all these questions! But the mechanism of decision one way or another is abutted against the fact that it is necessary to create organization, you do wish- not wish, but with centralized control, and so that not in Warrior or carat head would be ill, since incident happened in their region, but in leadership. And so that not they would run and would solve with medicine and jurists, asking for leave based on the work, but central leadership was harassed about this!
Strictly speaking, I do not enter with you beside the controversy - which is better: Confederation or association. Each of the structures has a right to exist. You will not support - others will be supported, we that also, strictly, at it only work, so that people (those, which have there is no such regular access before it ) thus far yet not before the course. But life will judge us.

[HARAD]

But life will judge us.
I about this already two times wrote… by the way…
Everything else from the area of demagogy, you will already excuse at the point of the word…
All this was before the history: “our response to Chamberlain…” and so on.
Make your matter, we make (I note: as we can) our! And everything!
Why advice, questions? But we do not consider the line of the behavior to any organization, so why to climb with the advice beside the confederation? But that she there is I I think no one no longer it doubts.
As Vlasov said: let us be ten… will take not by the number, but by quality…
And problems which to us will place life - our problems, but not those who NOT with us…

[Olice]

But life will judge us.
I about this already two times wrote… by the way…
Everything else from the area of demagogy, you will already excuse at the point of the word…
All this was before the history: “our response to Chamberlain…” and so on.
Make your matter, we make (I note: as we can) our! And everything!
Why advice, questions? But we do not consider the line of the behavior to any organization, so why to climb with the advice beside the confederation? But that she there is I I think no one no longer it doubts.
As Vlasov said: let us be ten… will take not by the number, but by quality…
And problems which to us will place life - our problems, but not those who NOT with us…





And note, we now nothing advise you! I generally do try to determine, will differ confederation regarding something from - club? This is here simple so, personally to me it is interesting! I do not personally see differences!
And still. You at the point of the problems generally be prepared will not be? You will solve them in proportion to entrance? Well it is agreeable, you do not wish for me to prescribe THE MECHANISM of accomplishment of one or other mission or another, which you . But so prescribe them understandably for others!!! But suddenly this will be will be actually convincing? However, and take, take as far as quality! … we not proud, are ready in you to learn, if efficient something you propose. Nevertheless at the point of the use of the development of …

[HARAD]

I will not be liable to take Christ's role upon itself in order to teach someone…
Not that level… you will forgive.
You do wish ideas? Them there is in i… But as the saying goes: “To confederate members - …”
Why NOT to confederate members our ideas? Develop your… But you do work at this?
And give let us discontinue this no one not necessary skirmish…
We work. Each by its tool, good sphere of action - is vast, if we do not say - immensely… Beneficial field! Successes!

[Vlosof]

Well cannot 20 people think equally!
they can

[Oncli]

And note, we now nothing advise you! I generally do try to determine, will differ confederation regarding something from - club? This is here simple so, personally to me it is interesting! I do not personally see differences!
And still. You at the point of the problems generally be prepared will not be? You will solve them in proportion to entrance? Well it is agreeable, you do not wish for me to prescribe THE MECHANISM of accomplishment of one or other mission or another, which you . But so prescribe them understandably for others!!! But suddenly this will be will be actually convincing? However, and take, take as far as quality! … we not proud, are ready in you to learn, if efficient something you propose. Nevertheless at the point of the use of the development of …
Whether- and -… Leave confederative spendthrift- romantics before the rest, especially because them and so little it remained. It is digital one hand sufficiently in order to calculate them. Render to them assistance in the form of place on the site, that already you make, and do not be diverted from the work. It is confident, that all will come to nothing there is sufficiently rapidly for the confederation it cannot nothing propose either ideologically or is organizational nor financial interesting for , it possesses no resources, it does not recognize the balance of responsibility and rights.
All will be begun and it will be finished by fetish- framing and there will be .
I propose to turn down the branch: “Questions to the organizers” and to attempt by itself to answer the preset before it questions.

[sxeva]

2
Listen to, and in you indeed precisely healthily it was received with the manual… up to until Saturday…
Can actually this - your? It is not possible indeed to write with the entrainment the manual of confederation,
and to in a day other day replace heading for the association… Yes even targets will there surely be others, and already the methods of achievement - this precisely not such… Be determined brothers! If is close to you union on the equal and free laws, then we continue fruitfully to work at the creation OF CONFEDERATION.
If other values and ways of their achievement are close to you before the spirit, that this zh your selection, the selection of free people and you are free to create that which to you is nearer on the spirit… No one will reproach you!
The main thing so that before the confederation those would remain, who this by entire heart… You will forgive at the point of the high degree of pairing.
PS to go away possible quietly… having simply removed based on yourselves signs… and you here will be able already without the confederation, I do not know… Can someone this it will do with the ease, someone day after thinking…
I personally first think, I weigh, I estimate I will be able and I only then take down itself some obligations… But if it took, then to take away in me this oh as is not simple! And I do not represent, as I could be deployed down 180 degrees in one day?! This is not possible!!! Sole version - this is unconformity for the sake of the idea… But why it was then it defend and “play” beside it? Plays, as childhood ended, fellows!!! It is here necessary to decide and to behave seriously…
Does mean, if I after visiting the discussion of the theme of the strategic formation of spendthrift- public 16.12.2006, did agree with the idea Of and did promise, to the extent of my forces and possibilities, aid, I it was deployed down 180 degrees and signature vary it must?
And the fact that the idea of confederation me interests down the equal degree with the idea Of , already to .
These are somewhat different themes for me.
I wish to be useful for the people of those connected itself for the sake of two-wheeled equipment (with the motor), but not to protrude “after weapon” before the hands of the opposing sides.